Embrace Your Curiosity

A lot of people aren't done with Jesus, they're just done with feeling cornered. Curiosity doesn't have a deadline. This episode is for anyone who's ever wanted to ask questions but didn't trust the room.  It's about giving yourself permission to wonder, doubt, and take your time; and why that's not a lack of faith, it's the beginning of it.

https://faithcurious.buzzsprout.com/2569002

You Tube:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6LMmRuPXqtRFaYp8JuA7Wg

Reach Jim & Larry at faithcuriouspodcast@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hey everyone, welcome to Faith Curious. So, what makes this conversation about Faith different? Hey, we're just two guys with no hidden agenda. What you see is what you get. It is a brand new day.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Uh, welcome, curious people seekers, doubters, to the Faith Curious podcast. I am Larry Horton with my main man, Jim McCauley. Hello, sir.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Hey, Larry, how you doing, my brother?

SPEAKER_01 0:32

I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right. Good to see you. How you been?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Oh, been doing been, you know what? Been great. Spent a long weekend in uh New York City with my my daughter. How about you, man? How's uh how's life treating you?

SPEAKER_01 0:45

I I tell you, uh, we got a lot going on uh over in the household here, but uh, you know what you're gonna love is uh my my thing is about my daughter as well. We just went to go see her at her school. My six-year-old daughter is awesome, and her old dad, who is older than all the other dads and all the other moms. And I'm like, wow, gray beard, what's going on here? And and I'm looking around and I'm like, man, you know, I'm part of that club. It's the old man's club. The you know, I I had the daughter uh, you know, after a few birthdays club, and and uh you know, you don't want to be the odd guy out. You ever I I don't know if you felt like that, but I look around and I'm I'm I'm I'm that one of these things is not like the other, you know. Okay, so and this got me thinking as I was you know having lunch, looking around, you know, thinking about belonging because you're the community guy, which I I love about you. You bring people together, all right. But it it wasn't always that way. When tell me about the first time, what was it like for you, the very first time you decided to not go to a Catholic church and go to a uh to the church that you're going to now? Oh wow, that's a really good question.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Um, yeah, so uh again, grew up Catholic church, it's all I kind of knew. When my my wife Sarah and I were first dating, um, you know, church was important to her, but I could tell like going to Catholic church wasn't her thing, you know. Yeah, so and I was I was looking for something more. Um and uh so we started looking and I got turned on to a church and we went there and like it was uh you know, we got really, really lucky because we walked into this place, um, and it just felt like home. There was kids running around kicking soccer balls, a little coffee shop, you know, like kind of nirvana of church. Yeah, it was just like I'm like, man, is it is this like uh um, you know, is someone pulling a prank on me? Like they got the guy in the back with the microphone in his in his collar going, hey, they're coming in uh the third door on the right, uh, three, two, one, approach, approach, you know, like but you came back. Funny thing, I had been introduced to the church we go to, I had been introduced to it about 10 years earlier. I don't know if it was 10 years, maybe maybe it was five years, I have no idea. Um, and I went once and it wasn't for me. Like it, I think I wasn't oh interesting. It was too different at that time, too different than the the church that I was used to, right? I wasn't ready for the big change, but then I was okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

I I want to see I love what you said right there, the church that I was used to, and I want to come back to that eventually. But um so you you you took a little bit of a risk, you know, you're you're showing up there. Um, you're not super familiar with uh the non-denominational, you know, uh aspects of things. How was it a was it an instant transition? Was it kind of uh awkward, like what you know, what what happened there?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

In instantly we felt comfortable and it felt right, okay. But then there was a whole lot of stuff I didn't get. And I was uh early on, um, I have some friends in this church, right? I was invited to this thing at a guy's house, uh, a little barbecue, and the the pastor of that campus was gonna be there. Um, and so it's like five, six guys sitting outside in the backyard, and the and the pastor's standing there in his blue jeans and a beard. And I I I remember my brain, my my Catholic brain. I had been around priests my whole life, right? I mean, because my my family was real involved in the church, they had, you know, they were friendly with the priests, they were at our house. So that wasn't it, but it was this in my head, this priest wasn't a priest, right? In the backyard, jeans drinking a beer. I my my brain was jumbled. I um like nothing made sense to me. I had like I just had to like stare and look and and be like, all right, well, this is different, but you know, it's all good. Um, so little things like that that kind of kept happening that just made me realize this is different, not bad, right? Not bad, not good. This is different. It's like uncomfortable. I was uncomfortable, right? And we all seek kind of to just be comfortable, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

So if I'm listening to us and I am curious and I am seeking, and I am wanting to go to the next level with this pursuit of my faith, I think you could absolutely do that, supposedly, you know, through an app or on your own in the comfort of your own home, right? But there's also a real isolationist mentality about that. There's a real like pandemic attitude about that, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

I I'm gonna argue that uh my faith is significantly stronger through two methods, and that is 12-step, which was uh you know, by nature of the beast, it's a group thing, and you really fight the isolationism, and then the other thing is actually participating in an actual church with others in the pursuit of you know, kind of broadening my horizons and opening up my mind about stuff, right? But that's scary.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

What's scary about it?

SPEAKER_01 6:34

It's unfamiliar, yeah. See, and that's that's the bookmark that I wanted to kind of go back to because I think when we're kids and uh you know we're going through like I was raised first communion, you're gonna go through um confirmation and things like that. I mean, that's just what my parents told me to do. So I did it. There's not a lot of risk there. I had it, I had an inherent group I was already a part of that was attending the church every time, right? If you're seeking and you're brand new to this thing and you're and you're exploring your doubts because you gotta, you know, you got some courage, you're gonna be kind of pursuing this thing solo, maybe with another person like you had your wife, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Yeah, hey, in a perfect world, like you know, you'd have a friend that would invite you to church, right? Um, so at least you you know, maybe meet him there, whatever you'd know someone, or yeah, maybe it's a significant other, you're uh, you know, something you want to do, you're on Google, you know. Um, and like so, and there's a there's a lot of things I think in that situation to be that that are scary, right? Um, like, okay, I'm I'm I'm I want to know more about this thing, but I I'm gonna show up to this place. Maybe I don't know anyone. Um, maybe I don't even know where to go. I don't know if I'm you know, stand up, sit down, you know, like do we take communion? Like I all the stuff, right? But I would say like that's not even the scary part. That's just like uncomfortable. Yeah, I think this I think because I don't really I don't think the scariness is in exploration. I think the scariness um is in safety, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Oh, tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

I mean, I think when um the this whole idea of of introducing yourself to a faith and trying to, you know, going somewhere that that you know, a church, right? Um, okay, uh what are they gonna ask me to commit to? Like as soon as I step on campus, is there gonna be 10 people around me? Um, are we gonna be in a circle singing this little light of mine?

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Let it you're you're thinking in the back of your mind, uh getting real Amway vibes here. This is not fun. Yeah. It's my multi-level marketing friends. Right. But uh you don't want to like suddenly oh, I have to sign up here and commit my I don't even know these people. Like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah, am I gonna be forced to like reject them and say, hey, no, I'm not ready yet? Or um or or am I gonna be in uncomfortable situations? Yeah, I don't know, but all I know is I don't know um what I'm going to encounter and like if there's gonna be pressure. I don't know any of that, right? And so that's what I don't I don't want to put myself in that. Like who does?

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Well, and and I'll tell you I had a I had an experience where you know I was kind of in a lurch. I I needed to find another uh community to belong to because I just broken up a relationship, uh, and and her and I went to a church together, and so in the breakup, she got to keep the church, and I I had to find something new. What's crazy about that is um I remember the welcoming, like everybody was so friendly and kind, and I gotta be honest, that that that I didn't trust, right? Like you're a nice person, you're you're approaching me with a smile and a welcoming attitude. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, what do you want?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

What's your game? What yeah, what what is your ulterior motive, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:20

100%, like am I just are you trying to you know pad some numbers? Like, what's going on here? And then it on so here I am. I'm already not trusting just generally, all right, from my occupation back in the day, and and now I'm I'm I'm in a I'm taking a risk, I'm gonna enter a new situation, and then the and let me also say when these folks were welcoming me, it was a genuine welcome, but I didn't know that at the time because I was new to the situation and I I'm on guard.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, you're on high alert, man.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yeah, yeah, and then I'm carrying my own demons into the room with me. Like I've got I've got some shortcomings and secrets that I'm ashamed about, right? That that are part of the reason why I'm wanting a spiritual connection, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Um, so you're talking about pressure, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Yeah, yeah, I mean that I put on myself partially, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

And you already mentioned um people welcoming you, right, and kind of not believing that you know that was authentic, right? They wanted something, right? Perhaps, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Because I have I had the cynicism on board, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

But like what are the other ways that people feel pressure, you know? Like I think it's the you know, maybe maybe a friend invites you and like you know, and then the next week invites you back. Why won't you know, and you're not ready yet? Why won't you come back? You know, and then every week it's like, hey, the message this week was about this, you know, you it wouldn't great, you know, which is all like there's nothing wrong with that, um, depending upon how you do it, right? Or it could be the text message you get, you know, afterwards, like, hey, come and meet the the pastor, or you know, come and join us for this event or that event, or Tuesday night uh men's group, or you know, like all the things, and and again, nothing wrong with that, but I think we're we're going in skeptical, and so we're measuring everything, we're measuring everything.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

And I and so this it's a weird space that I'm entering right now because on the one hand, I had the 12-step community, and in recovery, you had a situation to where, you know, I'm needing help, I want something from you, and that is not to feel alone anymore or weird, or or have to necessarily feel like I'm ashamed of what's going on while still having growth, progress, and to get out of this situation that I'm in. And in that vein, I have a significant aspect of spiritual connection that I'm learning about. Okay, I don't have to have all the answers, I can actually rely on a power greater than myself. When I take that to the next level, then it gets all like suddenly it's it's a little bit less simple. I'm not just going to a meeting on a on a weeknight. Right now, uh you know, uh, I'm out. There's no more anonymity. Uh you want to know my name, you want to get to know me, and I can't hide behind the mystery any longer.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yeah, yeah. That's a big difference. Like, listen, some of these people are well made well-meaning, right? I mean, this they just truly want to make you comfortable and they want to welcome you, they want to bring community to you and have you be a part of that, but you don't know that, right? Especially if you've had a bad experience, like churches aren't perfect, people aren't perfect, right? They can show up in unhealthy ways too, and yes, you know, really just turn on the pressure. So, like again, going back to the safety thing, like that's all the stuff that we don't want to put ourselves in the middle of that, right? So going back to last week, it's a it's a it's it's um a continuation of you know, we make this thing really hard. Larry's gonna sneeze everyone. Wait, wait, trying to I trying to mute it, it went away. No, no, I just I watched him back away, and you know, you can you can tell when someone's gonna sneeze and he was going, but then it disappeared.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

And then I thought about it, and yeah, yeah, it all went away. That's hilarious. That's so funny. It'll happen randomly, and then you're gonna just edit it out, and unless it doesn't even come over the microphone. We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

You know what? Pretty good chance that doesn't get edited out because I think it was kind of funny. Yeah. Um, but how do you how do you think how do you think uh like the church got there with um I don't know, this this pressure I I I love that question.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

I think uh again, this kind of harkens back to the previous episode, the church of man versus the church of God, because I think that there's okay, the business of church is something that is um bothersome to some folks, and I get that because you have this altruistic um guys, or in some cases it's a mask. You know, we just want to help you, we want to be a place for you to come, and that's true sometimes, and sometimes it's not. So you you've got issues where, and it might not even be as sinister as money, it might be something as just simple as like, I just want a larger congregation, I want more members. Okay, well, if that's your goal, then then you might not necessarily be completely honest about some things that aren't awesome, right? Uh and and you might say things that I want to hear as opposed to say things that I need to hear. And sadly, you know, that's human nature. We have we have ulterior motives and and we have goals or or you know agendas, and the church as an institution, the church as a business or an organization can can have that. And so now what should be very simple, all right? I'm following Christ. When you start to add structure to it, and you start to add uh a way to get a closer relationship to to Jesus, and it comes with some things where a group of people are gonna get together and we're fallible and we're just not perfect, and we're gonna bring that to the table too. And that's where you really gotta, you know, you're interviewing me. I'm interviewing you as I come to your church. Yeah, yeah. Is it a fit? I mean, am I safe here? And that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Well, there's a million questions. Do you just want my money? You know, like what do you want from me? You know, blah blah blah. Um, yeah, I you you mentioned the phrase I think was the church of business or the business of church or whatever. Yeah, um, right. Yeah, I mean, I you know, like people have to do need to understand, like yes, the church is there to bring people to Jesus, closer to Jesus, get to know Jesus. It's also a business, right? And they got people to pay, rent to pay, you know, m money that they want to do good in the community. I mean, uh all of that it takes money. Anyone needs to look at that and say, all right, like I I get it. Um but is it is it skewed too much one way versus the other? Because what I should be getting mostly is Jesus, is is a knowledge of you know who's Jesus, what does that mean? Um you know, how is my life better because he's in it? Um and we're gonna you're gonna get some of the other stuff, but it should be whatever the percentage is, I don't know what the right percentage is, you know, 80, 20. I don't know, right? It should be high on Jesus, low on the other stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

I had an old roommate who was uh not a believer at all. As a matter of fact, he was actively against religion, uh and and you know, I I didn't hide the fact that I was obviously Christian. Um, and and it was funny because he he uh he would ask me, he's like, Hey, you know, why why are you just he he called me a sheep, which was awesome. We were actually friends at the time, we're not friends anymore. So but like, and I said, Well, what do you mean? He goes, you know, you're just you're just a follower. And I asked him, I go, you know, tell me, and this is something I was really proud of. I go, tell me what I can do on my own versus what I can do with this crew of people, because and I gave him this very specific example back in in this conversation, which I remember very specifically. You know, me in this church that I go to actually went out and we helped out people in our community who were less fortunate than us, and it was it was legitimately like unhoused folks that were what were needing some help, and we had the power to do that because we had this congregation that was willing to step up purely for this, and and it you know, and that nobody was asking me for anything, just it was an invitation to actually be acting in in a Christ-like way, and he appreciated that conversation, uh, because he realized that you know the cynical aspect of what he was bringing to the table from experiences he had that were not awesome, right? Like good intending people maybe just said things to him or or did things to him that weren't awesome, but what I was talking about was truly just you know unifying with a community of of people who uh you know really wanted to follow Christ and then do it in a way that was proactive, and I was able to increase my impact and reach, and that was huge. That was a huge, huge deal, and I'm something I'm really proud of with our faith.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah, let me ask you a question. Um, because you mentioned you know, something like you know, you go there and you know what they were asking of you. What should you show up at a church? Maybe it's the first time, maybe you've been there a few weeks. I don't know. What should they expect from you?

SPEAKER_01 20:12

How would you answer that? It it's the church would should talk less about what they want to take and more about the what they want to give. You know, that's that's that's really what it's about. That's the experience that for the church that I'm going to now, that's what I got. You got questions? Let's have a conversation. You know, you want to know some things. Here's and so I was attending the church I'm attending now. I was attending that church for for several months before I really was like, okay, I want to go to the next step to commit. And that was a big deal because I felt like it wasn't about what they wanted from me in some kind of ulterior motive. It was about what they could truly furnish and and provide in generosity, right? How great would that be? And isn't that what we define as love, right? Yeah, what you can give as opposed to what you can get.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah, I I kind of feel like, you know, what should a church expect from me? You know, expect me to be authentic. And but what should I expect from them? Um I what I think what I would I would expect from a church would be um allow me to be curious for as long as it takes for me to get get my answers. You know, there's no there's no timeline, no deadline on that. Amen. Like amen. Jim, you've been here for four weeks. You know, are you gonna join the church or not?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Right. Okay, and this is this is me. I I I don't want to seem like I'm picking on these religions, but it's just a a true like anecdotal. The story happened, right? Um A good friend of mine was uh grew up here in in Phoenix. Uh it was in the West or it was in the East Valley and uh separated from her family uh while still in high school and was taken in by another family, just simply, hey, listen, keep going to school. We're gonna feed you, you're gonna have a place to sleep, you're good. All right, things are things aren't great with your family. And the family that took her in was a Mormon family, and she got along great with those guys. It was a fantastic relationship. She had a great time. They would take her to temple and they would say, Hey, you know, we you know, let's have a good time. Then they would go to the youth group and and what have you for young young adults and what have you. And it was fantastic. The the semester ended, and they asked her if she wanted to join the Mormon faith, and she was like, I'm not there. I thank you. This is you guys have been super kind and generous, and I I'm just that's not what I'm I'm ready to do right now for for where I'm at in my in my life, because she was contending with a whole bunch of family life stuff, a bunch of at-home life stuff that she needed to kind of sort through first. Man, when she said no, they ended up just kind of like all of a sudden, immediate distance. Um, her the parents of the friends that took her in said, Hey, listen, you know, we can't necessarily have you here anymore. And maybe it was coincidental, but it sure in her mind coincided with right saying no means you're not gonna get X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

And I was like, Wow. And she goes, Yep, and that's the that's the taste in my mouth that I have for that faith going like you know, going forward.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Well, it you know, I guess what what I hear there is, you know, love me with conditions, right? Yeah, you know, like all right, got boy, this has been like what a great story that they took her in and they loved her. But then it kind of seems like that changed when she didn't answer something the right way, you know, which is it's just you know, it goes back to last week on why we make this so hard because we're people and we're we're flawed organizations and and we do stupid things and we hurt people, and uh um, you know, that's that's way to like so. What's my role in that? If I'm if I'm her or what's her role, right? I mean, if this is still important to you, like if if something bigger than you is important to you having in your life, you know, you gotta, I think you gotta pursue the truth, yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not not let bad people, bad organizations, take something away from you that could be really good.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Again, talking about how spirituality is an aspect of our existence, and to deny that would be to deny ourselves. I truly believe that, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Right, yeah, yeah. So yeah, man, all these all these things are hard and they can suck and they can you know hurt you, but you know, um is is it still the right thing to pursue for you? Uh you know, to to to live a life that someone wants to live, that that's like that's the the the um give and take that people need to make.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

And if I truly care about you, right, then I'm going to welcome your challenges. I'm gonna welcome your curiosity, I'm gonna welcome your your skepticism, even, you know, and your doubting. And I'm gonna take that and I'm gonna say, yeah, that's exactly why we're here.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Well, and here's here's another thing, okay? So, you know, you and I talk about this all the time where we struggle with even using the word Christianity, right? Yes, uh that's the truth. Yeah, um, I don't like to use it anymore because I don't know what that means to someone. You know, to in in in my world view, um, it's been tainted, you know, um uh just because of the different people that show up in in certain ways that aren't appealing, right? Um so yeah, we we struggle with Christianity. Um, so we've defaulted to uh like what what works better for us is talking about we believe in Jesus, right? Because there's two levels there's Jesus, the highest level. That's what I am pursuing. I am using, I don't mean in a negative way, I'm using a church. The church is a vehicle that helps me get there, learn about him, be with him, be around other people that can, you know, maybe that I can help be you know live more fulfilling lives. They can help me, whatever, right? So I'm I'm using that vehicle. Um, that vehicle might be the right vehicle when you walk in there in 2026. Six months later, it might not be right, it might not be. Um, that you may go through two or three of those vehicles, right? Or more. I don't know. Now I'm not promoting like just always leave the church because you have a little issue with it, right? Like I'm saying the the beacon is Jesus. Right. And and find the right find a vehicle that can support you in getting closer to Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

I had a shrink tell me once, and this is something I truly believe, relationships are the hardest things that we will ever do in our entire lives. Amen. And our relationships with each other, our relationships with our faith, and our relationships with a church organization that we decide to become a part of.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

And and again, in the imperfection, in in in the the back and forth struggle, you know, you're you're talking about not church hopping, but also you're talking about in that relationship as it is developing, there's gonna be some rough roads, you know. And what do you do? Do you just turn your back and run? Or do you do you become character and and deal with it in a relationship way? And in some cases, it's the right thing to do to walk away, right? Yeah, full on. Yeah, but in in some cases, we need to grow as people and and uh come up against the struggle, which in some cases is knowledge or understanding, in some cases it's all right, I uh this situation XYZ is not something I'm comfortable with, and I need to I need to ask questions, but it's relationships, just like it's a relationship with Christ, you know, all right, Jesus, you know, I don't understand. And that's why we're having this conversation because we've had doubts, and and and and that truly is the is is the deal. The relationship is gonna be something that we need to navigate, and and that's how we're gonna grow in our faith just as people, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

And and if we should we tie a bow on this bad boy? I think I think we're there. What we wanted to really talk about today was you know, what is the expectation when you go? Are you are you expected to commit, right? And I didn't I would say the answer to that is absolutely not, like absolutely not. Yeah, I mean, I listen, your curiosity, your journey is your journey.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Uh well, I think on the other side of risk is a community, and then now not only are you looking to to subscribe to something higher than you, but you're surrounded by folks who who are also doing that same thing and can help lend support. And now you're not alone anymore, isolated in your in your room. Now you're actually like, okay, as I'm doubting, as I'm curious, I get to be curious alongside these other people and and be part of something bigger than myself, not just on a spiritual level, but actually in a physical, tangible level as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

And you should and and you shouldn't be concerned that there's a timeline on that curiosity. You got to come up with your answers and your decision in in 30 days, like that. You know, take your time.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Freedom and acceptance.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

I dig that. This has been a great conversation. I love, I just love you know, we we obviously, you know, there's a topic, but what I love is that even surrounding that topic, there's all these periphery things that come in that are related, and it's fascinating to me. I just I just love these conversations, man.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Um, I I just I love the feeling that you know, I I don't know if we're landing, right? But what we're trying to do is um let people know, like, yeah, we get it. This can be really hard. People can be bad. Um, you know, uh but if you're curious, stay curious, man. Stay curious, stay on your journey, and um and and come at the answers in in the way that you need to come at the answers, right? There's no expectation. There should not be an expectation you gotta do things a certain way, or even like there should be an expectation that you know the only right answer is for you to come to Jesus. Now, I I believe that for me and my life, right? But that's me and my life. Um, and you if you're curious about that, I I hope that's where you land, but land what where it's authentic for you to land, otherwise, you know, it's just not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

And and that that reward is gonna be so so true and belong, like it's just gonna feel good to have obtained that reward on on your time and your pace in a way that is connected. Uh I I dig that. I could not have said it better myself. Uh just thank you. That's and I think that's a great close right there, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

All right then. Um, wasn't uh wasn't meaning to close, but well, you know, yeah, I clo I'm a closer. Yeah, amen. All right. Uh hey, love the conversation. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yeah, thank you so much. Take care of yourselves, and uh, we'll see you in the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

You got it. See you soon. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us. Wherever you are with faith, whether it's curious, skeptical, or just tired, we're glad you're here. And if this stirred up thoughts or questions, don't rush past them. Just sit with them. We'll keep the conversation going.